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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:34 pm 
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Shiny Pidgeot King
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On the contrary, I think Madoka is a fine example of moe.

That is, if we're going to treat moe as an art style, not a genre. It seems to me that nowadays any slice of life with a cast of majority female characters is called a "moe" series. Thus, slice of life and moe have become synonymous. I don't think that's quite right, though. Is Azumanga Daioh a moe? Not at all. Why? It doesn't look like one. The whole "moe" thing is more of a style of art and animation than it is a method of storytelling.

And in that case, Madoka is 100% moe. The art style, the animation, and the frequent frames of cute girls being cute all match up too perfectly with the standard definition of moe. It fits the bill, all right. It's just not a slice of life, so it doesn't get grouped in with the others.

On another note, don't you dare try to tell me that Clannad's story is no good. It's a perfect example of moe, and if you don't cry by the end of After Story, you have no soul.

Anyway. I will not deny that One Piece has a good story. But really? it's the exception, when it comes to shounen. It's been running so long that its fanbase grew up, and it rose to the challenge. Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tale, Toriko, even Dragon Ball - all the other "standard" shounen titles, if you will - don't have any more to their story than K-ON! does. Big evil guy comes along, heroes go out and beat him up. Repeat this process, with numerous sudden power-ups and training montages, for about 300 episodes and you have yourself a shounen. It doesn't take any more than that.

Finally, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with moe, or even anime that focus all their time on cute girls doing cute things. They can be fun to watch. Not every anime needs to have some great powerful story to be enjoyable. The problem I have with moe... is that there's so freaking much of it! Give it a rest, guys! I'd like to see some unique styles, not just constant reruns of Lucky Star! But this is what the otaku want, apparently, so this is what animation studios pour out. THAT'S the problem. Big eyes and head tilts aren't killing the anime industry; it's the otaku themselves that are doing it.

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"Irregardless" and "Over exaggerated" are NEVER CORRECT EVER because they are redundant
Regardless means "without regard", and adding "ir" on the front actually makes it a double negative; exaggerate means "to overstate" so you're literally saying "over overstate."
Example: I can not exaggerate the importance of this fact enough, regardless of how often people ignore it.
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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Blaziken
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Ryuuko wrote:
It's too dark and edgy for that.

Please never use that again in any context. Paired together, they're negative buzzwords that attract hate towards any fandom.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:44 pm 
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Sure, if it doesn't succeed. I would think using it to describe the tone of a piece of work is appropriate when it worked for that particular piece, as it did with Madoka. It gave audiences the illusion of a typical magical girl anime and blew those expectations out of the water - especially by having the cute mascot character be the cause of it. So in this context, I honestly Darker and Edgier does work.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Silver wrote:
Anyway. I will not deny that One Piece has a good story. But really? it's the exception, when it comes to shounen. It's been running so long that its fanbase grew up, and it rose to the challenge. Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tale, Toriko, even Dragon Ball - all the other "standard" shounen titles, if you will - don't have any more to their story than K-ON! does. Big evil guy comes along, heroes go out and beat him up. Repeat this process, with numerous sudden power-ups and training montages, for about 300 episodes and you have yourself a shounen. It doesn't take any more than that.

...Alright, I'll give you that one. It did kind of cross my mind (particularly when I remembered the reasons I no longer enjoy reading Naruto or Bleach). I just wanted to point out that there are some shounen with good stories, however few. Forgive me for possibly taking it the wrong way, but Colly's statement sounded as though she were skeptical that any shounen was worth reading.

I also second Silver on the too-much-moe thing, although it just sorta compounds my existing distate for its overall appearance. I have to admit that I'm probably also subconsciously biased against moe because one of my friends in real life is a huge fan of it, and whatever he's interested in, I have a tendency to dislike. For much of the same reason I have little interest in Clannad outside of the Dango song (which has completely different connotations for me). It's not very fair, but I can't do much about it. >_>'

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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Shiny Pidgeot King
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No. You're completely using that phrase wrong. The word you want is "Deconstruction". I'm gonna take TVTropes as the authority on this, considering that's what they do, and so here:

Quote:
If the princess is raised in a restrictive environment due to her gender, becomes a pawn in international politics, and learns to keep her head above the water by playing political intrigue using feminine wiles and her position of influence with powerful people, this is a deconstruction.

If the kingdom is invaded by a brutal neighboring nation, the royal family's murder described in Gornful detail, and the princess repeatedly raped before being sold into slavery, this is Darker and Edgier.


Madoka is not a gory, violent anime by any means. Before you try to argue, I am going to point out that we did not get to see [major spoiler] [no seriously don't look if you haven't read Madoka, spoiler is in tiny font after this] Mami's body being ripped to pieces. Did it happen? Yes, yes it did. Did we see it? Barely. Was it depicted as being bloody at all? No. Dark and Edgy was not the focus of the story. What it was doing was deconstructing the magical girl genre, picking apart all the standard rules and showing how you can interpret them differently.

Mandi wrote:
...Alright, I'll give you that one. It did kind of cross my mind (particularly when I remembered the reasons I no longer enjoy reading Naruto or Bleach). I just wanted to point out that there are some shounen with good stories, however few. Forgive me for possibly taking it the wrong way, but Colly's statement sounded as though she were skeptical that any shounen was worth reading.


No, no, that's not what she meant at all. Trust me, she loved Death Note as much as anyone else. The problem was in the statement that she responded to, which was essentially saying "I watch shounen anime for the plot." This is implying that all shounen anime have better stories than all moe anime, which is a laughable idea at best.

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"Irregardless" and "Over exaggerated" are NEVER CORRECT EVER because they are redundant
Regardless means "without regard", and adding "ir" on the front actually makes it a double negative; exaggerate means "to overstate" so you're literally saying "over overstate."
Example: I can not exaggerate the importance of this fact enough, regardless of how often people ignore it.
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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:30 am 
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I feel I need to be a little more clear. Many series that have strong leanings towards moe have very rarely interested mostly out of personal preference. I was raised on head-rolling fantasy adventure type novels. That carried into anime when I started getting into it with - much to my more mature horror - Naruto. It was violent enough to satisfy what I was used to from novels of violence and death. I've watched so little slice of life and magical girl because for the most part, it isn't included. Yes it can come up on occasion, I simply haven't really had the time to get around to it. From Naruto I moved on to Bleach. At this point, I'm done with both of these two. The stories have basically stagnated for me. Since I've really begun exploring my own writing, I've gotten pickier when it comes to story concept. Neither Bleach nor Naruto have engaged me in months. One Piece offered something new for me. After a lot of prodding from Mandi, and, watching the 10th movie I gave in and tried it out.
I was reading 100 chapters a day.
Nothing has made me so excited for new chapters in a couple years now. Quite frankly, and I'm sure someone will disagree, I think that Oda does an excellent job with his story telling. Far better than some other shounen artists, and even powerhouses like CLAMP, who I think have been flagging on their story lines in recent years.
I know I can't possibly compare One Piece to something that isn't a shounen adventure anime. Not because it's absolutely Godly or something equally ridiculous, but because I would need to compare it to other shounen adventure anime. And well, stories like Bleach or Naruto can't possibly compare. I can't speak for of works like DBZ, or Toriko because I haven't read those. I don't even know what Toriko is about and I just know that DBZ involves aliens or something at one point. And most of the characters can destroy planets.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:36 am 
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There are plenty of shounen series with good stories (One Piece, Death Note, Hunter x Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist, etc.) and plenty of "moe" series with good stories (Higurashi (it has a moe art style), anything based on a Key game (Kanon, Clannad, etc.), Negima (the original manga, at least), etc.). Really, you have to judge each series on its own merits, not which catagory it falls under.

A lot of shounen series do end up revolving around fighting increasingly more powerful villians, though that's hardly the entire genre. And even those that do follow that path can be fun to read if the characters are likable and the battles are well done. DBZ, for example, isn't big on plot (though I'll note that the original Dragonball is much different in style than Z and, in my opinion, much better) but I still think the battles are fun to read/watch.

On the subject of deconstruction vs. darker and edgier, I suppose I'll side with the TV tropes definition. However, while I wouldn't call Madoka edgy or overly violent (really, the only especially violent thing we see is when Kyubi is shot), it's definately dark.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:57 am 
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So I've seen the end to Tokyo God farther and I kind of want options on it. I'm not sure if thats the true ending or if its just leaving it open like that for a Tokyo God Farther Two. Thoughts comments?

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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Mew
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I was thinking of finally watching Nanoha but, as far as I can tell, the DVDs for the first two seasons are out of print and the handful of place selling them charge a fortune (cheapest I saw was $150 each). I'm not seeing a streaming version anywhere either. Am I missing something, or am I going to have to torrent it?

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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:44 am 
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Aw, man. I wish I knew that at Otakon; would've let you borrow them.

All I know is, we found 'em for cheap a few years ago. A local Suncoast was going out of business and we grabbed the second season for like $15. So then we bought the first online later, and I don't recall it being particularly pricey. So yeah... we own these... now I know what to sell if we're ever low on cash.

But they do seem to be particularly expensive, hmm... however, you do have this alternative: the movies. They are unlicensed and easy enough to torrent. All they are is a re-animation of the TV series. The first movie is season one, and the second is season two. I haven't actually watched them myself (since I watched the series, didn't see a point) but they're pretty well-regarded... I mean, the animation's much better, for one. And honestly? The first season is slow-paced and filled with fluff. It could fit in movie time constraints easily. I would say to watch the movie and skip season one definitely. Season two... was pretty damn awesome all throughout, so I'm a little iffy on it being condensed... but I also think they would've put much more effort into that movie because of it's popularity. Hey, check it out, tell me how it is. And if it feels rushed, torrent the second season and... just pretend you borrowed it from us.

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"Irregardless" and "Over exaggerated" are NEVER CORRECT EVER because they are redundant
Regardless means "without regard", and adding "ir" on the front actually makes it a double negative; exaggerate means "to overstate" so you're literally saying "over overstate."
Example: I can not exaggerate the importance of this fact enough, regardless of how often people ignore it.
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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:59 am 
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Mew
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Are the movies unlicensed? I thought I saw DVDs for them somewhere... Anyway, I'll consider that, though if it comes down to it, I'd rather watch the full seasons so I may end up going that route. I mean, it's not like the company is losing the money from my sale since they're not selling it anymore. Though, if I'm stuck torrenting something either way (be it the movies or the series), it'll have to wait until I get the power cord for my old laptop back (let it to a friend who left hers are her parents' place) so I can watch while working on PV and Aurora's Nightmare.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime Help Center
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:12 am 
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Shiny Pidgeot King
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No, they're not licensed here, but the Japanese DVDs had English subtitles included. You may have seen those floating around, I guess.

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"Irregardless" and "Over exaggerated" are NEVER CORRECT EVER because they are redundant
Regardless means "without regard", and adding "ir" on the front actually makes it a double negative; exaggerate means "to overstate" so you're literally saying "over overstate."
Example: I can not exaggerate the importance of this fact enough, regardless of how often people ignore it.
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