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In place of Rotom-H, what would be the better substitute?
Poll ended at Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:34 pm
Gengar (Better Attacker) 50%  50%  [ 3 ]
Zapdos (Better Wall) 50%  50%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 6
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:21 pm 
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To Josiah: I'm sorry if I made this post entirely too long. I would have posted it on Smogon Forums, who apparently allows entirely long posts, but I was afraid of all the hate comments I'd get if I make a thread on there.

That being said. This is the team I've been working on for about a year. I went onto Shoddy Battle and tested it out, and I began to return to my Platinum game to begin the breeding, training, and bonding. It's all now complete in this one successful team, and now I'm ready to take on anybody with it.

Also, I didn't know how many competitive players are on this forum. But I at least want you to take a peek at it. Criticism is allowed, but don't go "OMG IT SUCKS" or anything like that.

BTW, this is the team I'll use in the PVF tournament if we ever have one.

The Team at a Glance!
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

Image

Pikachu @ Light Ball

Nature; Naïve
Ability; Static
EVs; 58 Atk/ 200 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spd
Moveset;
Thunderbolt; Pikachu’s main STAB move. Can 2HKO almost every Pokemon lead
Substitute; Pikachu’s method of avoiding deadly Explosions from Metagross and Smeargle’s Spore
Grass Knot; Grass Knot defeats Swampert, a dangerous stall threat to my whole team
Brick Break; Brick Break ensures 2HKO for Heatran and OHKO Tyranitar. I can usually substitute this for Focus Punch which will OHKO both either way.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Not only is it one of my favorite Pokemon, but I realized how awesome an Anti-Lead it would make. I did realize it would obliterate most lead Pokemon. However, Jirachi, Infernape, and Machamp will all involve some switching in.

Counters:

Machamp will obviously not let me by easily. It can break through substitutes with DynamicPunch or Payback or Encore my substitute. Infernape’s Fake Out is dangerous, too. To avoid getting KO’d I’d switch in to maybe Kingdra or Rotom-H. Azelf is not as dangerous as it looks. But if my opponent taught it a move such as Psychic than it will mean trouble for Pikachu. Jirachi can trick away Pikachu’s Life Orb. Iron Head will also 2HKO.


Image

Meganium @ Leftovers

Nature; Bold
Ability; Overgrow
EVs; 252 HP/ 72 Def/ 186 Sp. Def
Moveset;
Energy Ball; Meganium’s basic STAB move. Good against Starmie and Swampert.
Light Screen; Obviously, this move helps protect my more vulnerable Pokemon to special attacks.
Reflect; Same reason as above, only this one guards me from most Tyranitar
Aromatherapy; This is the cleric move of my team. Heals just about everyone.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

I thought I needed a good defensive Pokemon for my team. I made Meganium my cleric to help with major stallers. Other sweepers will be weakened by the double screens.

Counters:

Any fire type, Scizor, Dragonite or Salamence will love to hurt Meganium any way possible.


Image

Empoleon @ Leftovers

Nature; Calm
Ability; Torrent
EVs; 252 HP/ 186 Def/ 72 Sp. Def
Moveset;
Surf; Empoleon’s STAB move
Ice Beam; For the bulky dragons that threaten my team
Stealth Rock; To add in an entry hazard
Toxic; To stop stalls from Blissey, Vaporeon, Milotic, etc.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Empoleon can resist several other Pokemon. It’s meant to take hits from Blizzards, Draco Meteors, Outrages. Empoleon will OHKO an outraging Dragonite or Salamence, Toxic will deal with plenty of stalls, and both Surf and Ice Beam will beat Gliscor. Empoleon works good against Snorlax, too. Without a boost from another Pokemon, Empoleon can only be 2HKO’d at the most by super effective moves.

Counters:

Lucario and Infernape with Close Combat will take out at the least 91% damage from Empoleon while holding a Life Orb. Magnezone with Thunderbolt, Scizor with Superpower, can also 2HKO Empoleon. Earthquake Gyarados will 2HKO, and Breloom will OHKO with Focus Punch, too…


Image

Togekiss @ Leftovers

Nature: Calm
Ability; Serene Grace
EVs; 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def/ 6 Sp. Atk
Moveset;
Thunder Wave; Used for, well, paralyzing. XD
Aura Sphere; for Heatran, Lucario, Skarmory
Air Slash; Can be used against Machamp, but main purpose is to cause flinching.
Wish; Supporter for Togekiss and everyone else on my team.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Togekiss is my Special Wall. Non-Explosion Heatran, Starmie, and most importantly, Gengar. Other physical walls such as Skarmory and Hippowdon can also be stalled with Thunder Wave and Air Slash, too. Wish will heal Togekiss from Fire Blast and Thunderbolt, too, which will 3HKO it.

Counters:

If I don’t use Aura Sphere correctly, Tyranitar can OHKO with Stone Edge. Machamp will involve luck, if I don’t flinch it with Togekiss than Stone Edge will 2HKO.


Image

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Nature; Bold
Ability; Levitate
EV’s; 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 6 Spd
Moveset;
Overheat; The move meant to beat steel types, especially Scizor and Forretress.
Shadow Ball; Rotom’s STAB
Thunderbolt; Rotom’s STAB, meant mainly to defeat Gyarados and to put some minor hurt on Heatran.
Will-O-Wisp; Weakens almost every physical sweeper.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Scizor is dangerous for my team. Other physical attackers such as Metagross, Swampert, and Jirachi can also cripple most of my team. But Rotom-H is meant to take the hits from each of them. It works well against Skarmory, too.

Counters;

Blissey, ugh… And Heatran will practically own Rotom. Curselax will also do damage to Rotom and escape Will-O-Wisp

Image

Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Nature; Adamant
Ability; Swift Swim (in case against Rain Teams)
EV’s; 252 Atk/ 6 HP/ 252 Spd
Moveset;
Outrage; Kingdra’s ultimate STAB move
Waterfall; Kingdra’s secondary STAB move
Substitute; To avoid status inflictors by Breloom, Rotom-H, and Blissey
Dragon Dance; To boost it’s overall attack and speed.

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Kingdra is basically the KING of my team. Meganium’s Reflect and Light Screeen + Togekiss’ Wish shields Kingdra while it builds up power with Dragon Dance. Kingdra can sweep almost any Pokemon with at least 2 Dragon Dances.

Counters:

Lemme say this, if you do not have Vaporeon, Swampert, or Skarmory. You’re screwed. D:


Edit:: Rotom-H was only meant for Shoddy Battle. But here are my possible substitutes for Rotom-H.

Image

Gengar @ Life Orb
Nature; Timid
Ability; Levitate
EVs; 252 Spd/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 6 HP
Moveset;
Substitute; To avoid status troubles and heavy attacks from Scizor and Tyranitar
Pain Split; If Gengar's HP ever reaches an extremely low level, this is meant to steal the HP from Pokemon such as Blissey and Hippowdon
Shadow Ball; Gengar's basic STAB move; such as for 2HKO Swampert, Gyarados, and Zapdos
Focus Blast; It 2HKO's Scizor and OHKO's Tyranitar. There's more to that but I'll explain another time. LOL

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Gengar is possibly the best substitute for my Rotom-H since it always reverts back to its original form. It makes a bad wall, but an excellent attacker and staller for Blissey. Gengar can also avoid both Explosion and Earthquake from Metagross, though I still need to beware of Bullet Punch. Plus, I realized Gengar will deal with my problems with Lucario and Infernape.

Counters:

Unlike Rotom-H, strong physical sweepers such as Machamp, Scizor, and Metagross will all be a pain in the neck. Tyranitar and Weavile can OHKO with Pursuit. Starmie will outspeed and yeah...


Image

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Nature; Timid
Ability; Pressure
EVs; 252 HP/ 186 Defence (I think?)/ 72 Spd (I think?)
Moveset;
Thunderbolt; Zapdos' Basic STAB move. Perfect against Gyarados and decent for Heatran
Heat Wave; My Scizor/Magnezone/Forretress killer. Though my opponent is most likely to switch into Heatran, Thunderbolt is also acceptable. Good against hackers who use Rotom-H.
Roost; Heals Zapdos and avoids moves such as Machamp's Stone Edge
Roar; To stop bulky Pokemon such as Snorlax, Salamence, and Kingdra

Why did I choose this Pokemon?

Zapdos resists the same threats to my team Rotom-H is meant to deal with. With the exception for Metagross' Explosion, Zapdos does a much better job as an attacker overall and makes the best Physical Wall for my team. Zapdos does better against Machamp, though I will need to make many predictions in that situation.

Counters:

Blissey will annihilate Zapdos, period. Tyranitar will OHKO with Stone Edge, too. Special sweepers such as Electivire will do good damage to Zapdos, and Suicune with Calm Mind (Crocune) will hurt Zapdos.

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Last edited by Metalheadz on Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:23 pm 
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I have no problem with long posts, long as they're not spammy.

Not a bad team overall. Here's my comments / suggestions.

1. If you plan on using that team in any official tournaments. There's generally rules banning Light Balls so you may just want to drop it and evolve your pikachu for better stats.
2. Tournaments also tend to have a rule that each pokémon on your team must have a different hold item, so you'll need to place most of those Leftovers.
3. I wouldn't count on Togekiss being an anti-Starmie seeing as Starmie can learn both ice and electric moves which would take it down pretty quickly.
4. Rotom's stats strike me as a little low to use competitively, and it's H form doesn't work if you battle someone with D/P or Battle Revolution.
5. I personally never found Substitute, Light Screen, and Reflect to be all that useful in high level battles. But I know other people do, so that's just personal preference on my part.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:53 am 
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I'll post my team I'm working tomorrow/when I get around to it (sometime next week). I like this team. Rotom-H won't work with your team, though. I suggest an Arcanine or a Metagross instead. ^^

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:51 am 
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Josiah wrote:
I have no problem with long posts, long as they're not spammy.

Not a bad team overall. Here's my comments / suggestions.

1. If you plan on using that team in any official tournaments. There's generally rules banning Light Balls so you may just want to drop it and evolve your pikachu for better stats.
2. Tournaments also tend to have a rule that each pokémon on your team must have a different hold item, so you'll need to place most of those Leftovers.
3. I wouldn't count on Togekiss being an anti-Starmie seeing as Starmie can learn both ice and electric moves which would take it down pretty quickly.
4. Rotom's stats strike me as a little low to use competitively, and it's H form doesn't work if you battle someone with D/P or Battle Revolution.
5. I personally never found Substitute, Light Screen, and Reflect to be all that useful in high level battles. But I know other people do, so that's just personal preference on my part.


1. And yes, I know. But this team is meant for the Standard Metagame rather than Nintendo Official Tournaments. The only items banned in the Standard format are: Brightpowder, Soul Dew, and 2 others I forget.
2. Then again, Standard Metagame allows the use of multiple items. Focus Sash can only be used on one Pokemon though.
3. Togekiss' high Special Defences can block most of Starmie's attacks. I would probably consider switching into Meganium to dodge Thunderbolt, Light Screen, and then send in Kingdra to finish the job.
4. Thanks for pointing that out. I have a substitutive Pokemon for Rotom, now.
5. The thousands of competitive players find the Light Screen/Reflect to be rather useful. Though I do admit it's hard to pull off.

Thanks for your comments.

As for Cheez, here are two of my possible substitutes for Rotom-H. I'll edit that post later.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:18 pm 
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It's a strong team over all, nice solid Electric type although it could KO'd easily with a medium+ ground type move, Grass type is a good match, only weak to Ice, Fire, Flying and Bug and strong against Water, rock, ground and electric does .5 damage, with a strong defense and attack it could be a problem, Water/Steel type is a good one too since the water protects the steel from fire but is still weak to fighting, the steel counters almost every other weakness so if you had a flying or psychic move to take down it's weakness, I do start to see problems with the Togekiss though, it is very weak to electric and rock and since it's part normal it takes normal damage to fighting moves, Gengar can be a good pokemon although a hit from psychic or psybeam can KO it easily. Rotom H isn't a very good fighter to being with and, like Josiah said, it reverts to Rotom when a D/P player connects. Zapados, while it can be a good fighter is also not usually good, although it's a trio half-legendary I find the hl's actually very quite weak. Zapados would fall to a Thunderbolt or Thunder easily, not to mention any rock move that a pokemon could have.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Light Screen and Reflect are great and all, the setup is a pain but Meganium's got the Defense for it. Just... Leftovers? Wouldn't Light Clay make more sense? Sure you'll probably get Brick Broken by that time anyway, but I'd take the chance of nearly doubling the effectiveness of those two any day.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:17 pm 
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The Light Clay is an acceptable item. Though the Leftovers will also heal Meganium from the afterpain it recieves after using either Light Screen or Reflect. Brick Break can be dodged with Rotom-H, my Scizor counter. Speaking of which, Scizor happens to be the most common Pokemon holding Brick Break.

Now I need to know everyone's opinion. What would be a better replacement for my Rotom-H since I can't really use it on the Wi-Fi?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:06 am 
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I'd go with Gengar. Zapdos is banned in a lot of tournaments and has some popular weaknesses. Plus, you've already got electric and flying types. Gengar would fit better with your other pokémon and is a pretty powerful pokémon without too many weaknesses.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:22 am 
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That depends on what level the Zapdos. The Official Nintendo one held this year will allow most legendary Pokemon, even ubers such as Giratina and Mewtwo! lol

Seeing that Rotom-H was originally a wall, I'd go with Zapdos. Though I do agree Gengar is more of a wall breaker than a support Pokemon, itself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:11 am 
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If you're looking for a defensive pokémon, you should forget Zapdos and Gengar and use something like Wobbeffet or Shuckle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Wobbuffet is banned from the Metagame and just about every local tournament, sadly. Plus, Wobbuffet has not been found to be very useful in Nintendo Tournaments, where he is very underused and looked down upon though he is legal there.

Shuckle did better in the 3rd Generation. Not that he was bad right now, but ever since moves such as Stone Edge and Bullet Punch have been introduced, Shuckle dies really easily these days.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Wobbefett is a stall pokemon and you can easily PP-stall your opponent, or encore them into a Counter/Mirror Coat. It's banned simply because of the possible Wobbefett v. Wobbefett matchup in which noone could win until struggle kicked in.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:40 pm 
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You're correct on that part, Cheez. The real reason Wobbefett is banned is because its stall techniques are perhaps the most broken in all of competitive battling. I don't mind facing it in the PVF tournament, since Josiah is in charge of that. lol

Wobbefett is only allowed in Uber battling due to its overpowering in the OU metagame. As much as I think it's a cool Pokemon, I just can't use it outside of PVF...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:03 pm 
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I never saw the point of banning Wobbeffet. Sure it's can do some nasty counters, but only if you correctly guess the type of attack your opponent is going to use.

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